Curse

Sorn Xarann · Apr 02, 2008, 03:20 AM // 03:20

didnt they say that the reasons for changing those servers was because it had to meet Chinese laws or something?

chris12 · Apr 02, 2008, 03:27 AM // 03:27

IDK i guess some people dont read...its not ONLY because of the RMT. good god read the whole thing before u start passing judgement.

Kikuta · Apr 02, 2008, 03:29 AM // 03:29

chikorita23, if you honestly think this is based on racism I have no sympathy for you.

Lady Syve · Apr 02, 2008, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Anet isn't racist, they just can't provide service to the region because of Chinese laws. The contract for GW has expired and not renewed. This has nothing do to with gold farmers; that is just someone's speculation gone wild.

KiyaKoreena · Apr 02, 2008, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

So what happens if I have a Taiwanese guild? Does that mean I can't access the GH anymore? UPS

Well we have a Taiwanese guild (all players are in the American or EU servers) and we can all get to the hall still, just most of the NPCs dont work anymore. Who knows what will happen down the line right now. Just in case we have screenshotted the guild list and are making preperations to move back to our old US based guild if needs be.

chikorita23 · Apr 02, 2008, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Kikuta, and thanks I do not need any of your sympathy! I only need Anet's fair judge not your personal sympathy.

Anet giving out fancy excuses by saying they isolated Taiwanese GW duo to recent law change! Oh please.... our new government Ma-Ying-Ju just got on, and no law has yet been changed until a bit later. Where did this freaking law change info Anet got it from? Anet did this because they wanna ban bots, well, go-ahead then! I've seen them everywhere not just in Asian districts.

The fact is, there is no law changing yet, if they found a bot in asian services, they can ban it. Instead, they rush on banning Taiwan/HK/Macau services influencing all the other innocent paid-customers. This will make a lot of us consider racism!

SerenitySilverstar · Apr 02, 2008, 03:39 AM // 03:39

*sigh* Propaganda, rumour, and 2nd guessing make for a wild combo.

Get informed.

Mr. Undisclosed · Apr 02, 2008, 03:41 AM // 03:41

:sigh: its not about the gold farmers, do your homework.

Lady Syve · Apr 02, 2008, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Almost all the arguments and most of the information are on the "Death" thread. Please go read at least some of it before jumping to conclusions.

Jennie · Apr 02, 2008, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Undisclosed

:sigh: its not about the gold farmers, do your homework.

And where is your homework coming from? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ANet is racist. I just think that nobody besides ANet really knows what their motives are. If it was to cut the number of bots or not or if that even impacted their decisions. Or for that mater, if they even had much of a choice in the decision. I am not making any assumptions or conclusions at this point.

And, if for some reason the American districts were dealt news of similar magnitude do you think that this forum would not be overloaded with outrage? Just try and look at things from their perspectives is all instead of being all superior. /endrant.

chikorita23 · Apr 02, 2008, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Hey GG, well we all read those "explanation"! However, there is no law changing yet Gaile Gray, our new government just got on and nothing has been changed. You mind give us the real reason for it?

Beside, its sad u're leaving, but worse Anet doesn't really respecting Taiwanese/HK players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Hi, there,

I wanted to give you a bit more information about this situation. As you know, recent changes to the laws in Taiwan made it necessary to change how accounts work. However, we are very sensitive to the fact that players want to continue to play on with their friends around the world. For instance, players in Taiwan, Macau, and Hong Kong want to interact with other players outside those areas; players in other areas around the world want to be able to interact with their friends in Taiwan, Macau, or Hong Kong. We do not want anyone to be concerned about this issue. We are working with NC Taiwan to make sure that we can take care of our players, and we'll be sharing information as soon as we have details on that.

As you might know, I was in Taiwan in 2006, and I love the country and consider the players there my good friends. I'm really happy that ArenaNet and NC Taiwan will be able to make arrangements so that we all can continue to enjoy the game together in the future.

Best regards,

GG (my nickname in Taiwan

)

Dr Strangelove · Apr 02, 2008, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Please. The racism bit is absurdly old and played out, we've heard it all a thousand times before about a thousand different things. If Arenanet was racist, they'd cut off service to all Asian countries, not just Taiwan.

From what I gather, it appears the server network was contracted out, expired, and isn't being renewed for some reason. Gaile mentioned new laws influencing this, too. Perhaps a decision was made not to sign a new contract given the laws that will be passed in the near future? It would be silly to sign a contract if there will be serious legal issues in the near future.

Second, Taiwan is not China, as much as China believes it is. Taiwan has its own government, and passes its own laws. However, China does not acknowledge Taiwan as an independent nation. Because China is extremely powerful in the UN, most other major countries, including the US, do not formally recognize Taiwan. It is certainly possible that this is creating a legal mess, but it would seem strange.

Hong Kong is very much a part of China, although it is a "special economic zone" (read: capitalism is ok here because it makes us a ton of money). It has a different government from China, but is still subject to their rule when the PRC sees fit. It is very likely that the shutdown there is related to the Tibet incident and the resulting Chinese lockdown of online information sources, including games. China is supposedly doing this because they want to make the country look good for the Olympic Games.

KamikazeChicken · Apr 02, 2008, 03:53 AM // 03:53

The game is most likely run by a third party (or maybe it's just government influence?) in Taiwan. If that third party is no longer expecting profit from a game that's had horrible sales in the area, they have no reason to renew the contract. For whatever reason Anet's contract was not renewed (Anet's decision or the third parties?), but Anet is still keeping a server operational for the Taiwanese players. It's not exactly the best thing that could be done, but it's probably due to that outside influence that the players weren't just thrown in with everybody else. There are some things Anet just can't do, so don't bitch and complain that this is all their fault. :|

At least Europe and America are lucky enough to be run directly by Anet without government involvement.

SerenitySilverstar · Apr 02, 2008, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by chikorita23

there is no law changing yet

Prove it. Link us the facts.

I'd say an international company with a team of lawyers are closer to the truth and facts, than someone with Google at their disposal.

Gaile Gray · Apr 02, 2008, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Please understand: We cannot offer a game that have different standards for different regions. Certain new regional laws limit our ability to monitor and maintain our property, Guild Wars, with consistency and fairness. Naturally, we must and will respect local law. However, it is not in the best interests of the game -- nor is it fair to the individual players, nor appropriate to the game community as a whole -- to have wildly different rules for certain groups of players. That is why service is offered to players on the Taiwan server but with certain restrictions.

I state with all respect that this is not a matter for which ArenaNet or NC Taiwan can or should be blamed.

Bowstring Badass · Apr 02, 2008, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris12

the majoriy of the bots coming from that region...

Nail on the head. And coffin closed.

chikorita23 · Apr 02, 2008, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Undisclosed

:sigh: its not about the gold farmers, do your homework.

I don't do my homework if my teacher fail to provide me a correct/honest resources!

Gaile and Anet was claimed they drop the Taiwan services due to recent Taiwanese law changed. Our new President Ma-Ying-Ju just got on, and no law has been changed. How did they manage to get this so called NEW LAW and rush on closing the Taiwan distract on 04-01?

Anet might not be racism, but their action make us think that way!

We don't know what's really beyond their mind. And their "offical explaination" only explain to people whom doesn't live or knowledge in Taiwan current situation or law.

Chthon · Apr 02, 2008, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masao

Thanks for proving my point! That's exactly what I was trying to say, that if anything it would be tried in said Taiwanese court, and thus the law of the instant jurisdiction would apply.... Given the agreement was between NCTaiwan and many Taiwanese users, as well as the probability that there are people running around Taiwan that NCSoft has contacts with, it's easy to find some way to pull NCSoft in on a minimum contacts basis using the standard in International Shoe.

You do not understand. The Taiwanese conception of "jurisdiction" is somewhat different from ours, and does not really resemble International Shoe/minimum contacts at all. Article 2 of the Taiwanese Code of Civil Procedure is the governing law here. Since each of us knows little-to-nothing about what it says and how it has been interpreted, perhaps we'd be better off not commenting.

Quote:

An EULA is a standard form agreement with offer and acceptance, though it is somewhat like Carnival Cruise Lines as the performance, or payment of money, comes before you sign the EULA... Cyber-litigation is still an open field, and I have no knowledge of current caselaw concerning it.

Just because you have no knowledge of the caselaw doesn't mean there isn't any. Carnival is not really relevant to EULA's. ProCD v Zeidenberg and Kloeck v Gateway are both directly about EULA's (and they have opposite results, so the US law varies depending which federal circuit you live in.) UCC 2-207(2) probably ought to govern, but no one seems to ever apply it to EULA's. Finally I might add that most EU countries consider EULA's out-and-out void as a matter of course.

Quote:

I appreciate the fact that you've shown that you know at least some caselaw and presented ideas that were consistent. Perhaps slightly less hostility would be nice, as this thread shouldn't be locked for degenerating into a flamewar.

I'm not being hostile, and we're not approaching a flamewar. My advice to you (which you are totally free to ignore) is:
1) In my experience, discussing foreign law about which you know little or nothing as if you did always ends up with you making a fool of yourself. I've made a fool of myself several times that way and have since learned to stop doing it.
2) Discussing law on GW fansites is mostly fruitless. Most people think the law says whatever they feel it should say, and dissuading them from that position is impossible. At most, it can a learning experience about what people with differing viewpoints think is fair and not fair. But you'll never persuade anyone of anything.
3) Trying to show off that you've been to law school by throwing case names around and educating the "uninitiated" impresses no one. In fact, it makes some people think you're an arrogant arse. Particularly the part about "the uninitiated"; I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but it really came across as talking down to people. Law school may make you more educated, but it does not make you any smarter. And, if you're not careful, it can actually make you dumber and more closed-minded in some ways. (For example, you automatically assumed the Taiwanese would use "minimum contacts" in their conception of jurisdiction.) If you want to make your point on the forums, appealing to legal authorities that no one here has ever heard of is not very effective; rather try to make your case in plain English (no legalese), appealing to principles (perhaps embodied in particular authorities) rather than authorities.

Quote:

EDIT: Uh, this might be a stupid question, but what does 'grok' mean?

From the Martian Chronicles:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heinlein

Grok means to understand so thoroughly that the observer becomes a part of the observed—to merge, blend, intermarry, lose identity in group experience. It means almost everything that we mean by religion, philosophy, and science—and it means as little to us (because of our Earthly assumptions) as color means to a blind man

Neph D · Apr 02, 2008, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Listen to Gaile.
Your servers are governed by local law. GW cannot change the world. They, like all businesses, are restricted by local (national) government. Be mad at your leaders. Be mad at your lawmakers. Be mad at your community. Be mad at yourself. Be mad at the lack of change.

Pinghan · Apr 02, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShoGunTheOne

the chinese mainland servers will also be shut down on 31 March, 24:00. but they were still is a open beta period.

there were complains, but since you could get an accout for free, the company did not have to refund anything.

the notic for the mainland server shutdown was announced on the 16th March

Taiwan region and China region are different situation

Taiwan's players did pay money to NCsoft for their account

China's players can get account free , because they still on open beta

And Taiwan region been separated less then 12hours after the offical notice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masao

First year law student. I'm as close to an expert as you'll get.

ANet and NCSoft have no right to enforce their contractual agreements if it is against the law in the jurisdiction they attempt to enforce them in.

Therefore they have no jurisdictional rights in Taiwan.

The Taiwanese government would be able to sue on behalf of it's citizens to recover for breach of what I'm assuming is going to be statute in Taiwan as of today.

EDIT: Last I heard they were all running trial accounts that they didn't have to pay for. Any truth to this?

Not really , some people thought Taiwan and China region are same region , they are not
Taiwan region control by NcTaiwan
China region control by the9

Taiwan's player must PAY money to play Guild Wars
China's player can get accounts for free , because they still on open beta

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShoGunTheOne

Basicly what they're saying is that EU/US server and TW servers are quite different. for example, Payment methods, as the EU/US accounts are bought with a once off payment, but Taiwan accounts works on a monthly payment. and because of this, the data base is also a bit different. so now they're discussing with ANet how to provide service to each type of payment group.

I think they're trying to say here that monthly payment accounts stand a bigger chance of being a Goldfarmer/bot account. as they don't have to pay that much initially for an account, so they will just get multiple accounts and will probibly get just enough money to pay off the account and perhaps a little profit. well...if you understand what i mean

Let me explain this to you

Taiwan's account has two payment methods
1. buy with once of payment
2. monthly fee

Mosts REAL gw player choose method 1
Because 4 months fee = about once of payment per Chapter

I think only mosts bot or gold seller will choose month fee ... so they can keep avoid the permanet ban - -